Welcome to the Arkansas Wildlife Podcast, the official podcast of the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission.

We are talking hunting, fishing and conservation with engaging guests and in-depth discussions with game and fish staff.

It's Arkansas Wildlife, the podcast for all things outdoors in the natural state.

Welcome to the Arkansas Wildlife Podcast.

I'm your host, Trey Reed.

Thanks for listening in for another episode.

We are joined today by Deputy Director of Arkansas Gaming Fish, Ben Batton.

Ben, welcome back to the podcast.

You've been here before, right?

Yeah, that's about my third or fourth.

So you've been here a number of times.

Well, you're no stranger to the podcast.

You know how this works.

We're happy to have you here in a bit.

Came up through the fisheries division at Arkansas Game and Fish.

And so today we're going to be talking about some new fishing regulations.

The April meeting of the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission saw the passage of lots of new regulations, both on the wildlife and fisheries side.

And so those are going to go into effect July 1st.

And that's a little bit new to begin with.

Right.

Then.

It is it is historically fisheries regs have come in on calendar year January 1st.

And we put out the guidebook about that time while the wildlife stuff was more lined up with our fiscal year of July 1st, and for the first time, we were going to line all that up where both fishing and wildlife regs will take, effect on July the 1st.

And guidebooks will come out about that time as well.

So we're excited about that.

It was about 220 ish.

Yeah.

Regulation changes, all total.

Fisheries would be less than half of that, but still a fair number.

And so it's a lot to keep up with.

You know, those guidebooks have to be right, because that's what our folks are following in the field.

And our officers are, you know, grading by we regulate all fish and wildlife of the entire state.

And so there's a lot of things that I would just call niche, that are very important to the people that participate.

But like commercial fishing, we only have a few hundred commercial fishers.

So these regs are very important to them.

But don't you know, the.

Other three out of 50.

Thousand anglers are worried about captive wildlife.

You know, things like that.

Fish farming.

We you know, we regulate the agriculture industry.

So when you say hundreds of changes, lots of them will not be broadly applicable.

Right.

Well, let's talk about some of those that may affect more of our, you know, day to day anglers.

And I want to start with the one.

And I don't think this will surprise you as somebody who's pretty passionate about smallmouth bass.

We did.

Something where we designated smallmouth streams as blue ribbon.

So bend number one.

What does that mean?

Yeah, that is us.

Just giving a nod, I would say to fisheries that we know are special, for, you know, their potential to grow decent fish.

Also just public interest in things.

And so a lot of those are our, our clear gravel Ozark streams, you know, that we should you think about, you know.

Crooked Creek, Kings River, like, those are two of them, right?

You got you got a list.

There's actually ten of them.

Ten.

Okay.

We have had two, and we now are going to have ten.

So this is a huge increase in protection of these streams.

So I'll.

Call it.

Yeah, please.

Buffalo, Caddo River, crooked Creek, current river, 11 point Illinois River, Kings River, spring River, Warrigal Creek and the white River below Bull Shoals Dam for that 90 miles.

That's the trout water.

All of those are going to have a one over 15 inch length limit.

Okay.

So that's the practical change is that you can now only keep one small mouth over 15 inch.

Correct?

Correct.

And I say that, but I also would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit about there's not a lot of people keeping small mouth anyway.

Right.

Bend.

No, it's it's tough because, you know, when you hear public opinion and I talk to folks or I read things, you know, people, claim that everybody in their brothers just taken buckets full of big fish out.

Yet our enforcement officers are not running into that very often at all.

And then we do creel surveys where we'll meet people at points or out on the river, and we're just seeing really low harvest.

I'm talking single digit, you know, 1 to 8% harvest, which is very, very low.

Yeah.

We also had a, I know specifically on Crooked Creek and exploitation study that Paul Port and crew did up there at probably even five, six, seven years ago now.

But a tagging study with some reward tags, I, we, I, my crew actually went out with them to document some of that one was happening.

And I remember Paul presenting to the commission afterwards and it's like like 98% sure they were still in the water.

You know, they weren't they weren't.

They.

For.

Natural causes.

So, you know, that's tough.

I mean, we all as humans want to protect whatever it is we love.

And so people want to see reduced harvest.

But sometimes like in this systems, that's not a major impact.

Unfortunately, Mother Nature and natural conditions are driving.

I guess, though you could look at it in the sense that if people aren't keeping fishing, it's not going to really it's not going to be, a burden on anybody really, because it's it's really raising the bar on it.

And if people aren't keeping them anyway, it's really not going to have a tremendous effect there.

But where people are maybe keeping some fish, it will offer some more protection.

Yeah.

And we want to recognize that, you know, it does take a long time.

There's some charts you see floating around about how long it takes to grow.

Yeah.

Those going to get into the growth rate.

And I will say there's a common chart that that Missouri Department puts out that I am happy to say like our work on Crooked Creek, we're growing faster than what they're saying.

But it's still slow when you compare it to like, a large mouth.

So we recognize that that above 15 inch fish is special, and takes a while to get there.

And so we do want to limit that harvest and not let somebody, you know, 2 or 3 people come in and clean out because we are talking about, you know, small pool systems and things.

We're in a drought right now.

Right.

And so, you know, there are situations where a couple of people could do harm.

It's always going to be like, what?

What are those limitations on growth?

Just fertility of the systems or small systems, I guess probably.

Are those some of the.

Yeah, I mean, factors that impact.

Size, habitat, and productivity.

And so, you know, with habitat, we have a lot of our streams are degraded.

As humans, we like to see the stream.

So we go and cut all the trees down along the edge so we can see it.

Huge issue we've talked about on the podcast riparian, buffer zone.

So, so and so then then our banks are eroding away sediments entering the stream.

Fish need a sediment free environment for their eggs to grow and things like that.

So I mean, yes, as humans, we're loving to death, some of these great resources.

So those habitat limitations are some of the biggest, issues.

And then, yeah, like you said, just the size of the stream, how much nutrients in there?

And then, you know what?

Bait fish and bugs and things they have to eat.

Sure.

Been without, kind of wrapping things up on small.

I don't want to get too deep in this, but because we have talked about it on the podcast and we're likely talk a lot more about it, but this blue ribbon designation for Small mouth also kind of fits in with some other work that's going on.

We're working with the Douglas Lab at the University of Arkansas, doing some genetic work on small mouth.

The Neosho, bass is actually not a small.

It is, but it's now a separate species, as, identified by the, American Fisheries Society.

Those are smallmouth, a species.

What?

Micropterix velox, I believe, is the name.

And those are found only in streams that drain into the Arkansas River.

So.

Mulberry, Illinois bio.

I'm trying to think, gosh, Lee Creek, some of those in the, you know, that drain into the river valley, basically.

So I guess what I'd like to get out is that it seems and you're in a, you're in a position to, like, I guess, verify this, that we're starting to, like, I don't know, pay a little bit more attention, maybe be a little more intentional in management of of this particular research.

Yeah.

I mean, of course, as we learn more and know more, we can make more better informed decisions.

And yeah, that that fish velox is, it grows a little bit slower than the other small mouth.

And so, yeah, we're just we're learning more and we're making better decisions based on what we know.

Yeah.

I think.

You know, I guess the take home message, about smallmouth bass as it pertains to this regulation is that Arkansas is a pretty special place when it comes to smallmouth.

We are the center of smallmouth genetic diversity.

You know, we've got different types of smallmouth, genetically distinct, smallmouth, more so than really any other place.

Yeah.

And I think, I mean, a lot of that goes dig deep into the Arkansas River, splitting things for years and years.

Right.

Also, one other really quick.

You're going to get into geological time.

Now.

I'm not not going to go there.

But I will say, I, we do get a lot of questions sometimes about why don't we grow smallmouth like Lake Saint Clair in Michigan or something like that.

But I would like to say, you know, species, kind of operate in a bell curve if you think about their range from north to south.

Right.

And so somewhere in the middle is where they're most comfortable on the bass.

So they're somewhere in northern Canada that's too cold for them to grow or stop.

No more summer.

We're very close in the south to the bottom of where a small mouth can grow.

Absolutely.

We really are on the edge of their range, which also plays into part about why we have interesting diversity there, because fish are able to species ate out because maybe that fish is more tolerant of warmer temperatures.

I'll give you a great example.

Jeff Buckingham, that used to work with us when he collected a lot of the smallmouth for the project to identify some of the genetic differences, that the Douglases did at the lab at the U of A, we went out with him in July or August, catching smallmouth in water that was over 90 degrees.

I mean, you just don't think about that is.

So there's got to be something about yeah, those fish that they have evolved to tolerate those types of temperatures, like you said.

Yeah.

What the opposite of northern Canada probably.

Where where the where where it's about to get a little bit too hot for those fish.

Exactly.

Well, interesting stuff with the small mouth.

We'll move on to, if you can't tell, I'm a little bit, passionate about smallmouth bass.

One of my favorite species to chase in Arkansas.

Again, don't forget that the new effective date for these regulations are July 1st.

That is new.

It's been said we used to, kick in those fishing regulations January 1st.

So this July 2026, many of these regulations will go into place.

Let's see, where do we want to go from here?

Been, I possession limits.

Let's talk that a little bit.

Kind of the other side.

A little more protection for smallmouth, and it's not really removing protections.

I think this is really a rag that just makes things maybe less tedious on our anglers.

Why don't you explain what we've done with possession limits in the new regs that go into effect July 1st?

Yeah.

So you have a daily catch limit, right?

You and I can each catch, you know.

20 crappie or whatever, ten.

Bass, whatever it may be depending on what location you're at.

So those have always existed.

But we also have a possession limit.

And interestingly, unlike there are some different rules with ducks because they're federal.

But with fish, we would have if you took, 30 crappie home and clean them once they're at your house and in final disposition, meaning either in your fridge or freezer, they no longer counted against your possession limit, but instead, if we were at someone else's place, a cabin, or were camping or something like that, then historically, you could keep three daily limits worth of fish in your possession.

So if you fish for three days, you need to start eating before you caught them on the fourth.

Right?

Okay.

Part of this, you know, we're always looking to simplify and eliminate regulations that that aren't making major conservation impacts.

And our commissioners really push us this time as staff to find some of those.

And so the first thing we did is get a citations list and see what are the game wardens writing tickets for and what aren't they.

And this possession limit one is just one that I would have thought it would have been written more, but it just wasn't.

I want to say in 4 or 5 years there's really been like 3 to 5 tickets written.

So and those were usually something where it was piling on with somebody who already had other issues going.

Yeah, there were some pretty major violations going on, and that was just like sort of.

Icing on the cake, so to speak.

So, anyway, so in an effort to make it simpler, we, we're just eliminating that, that possession limit.

So.

The really the, the ramification is you and I go to Lake Millwood and we're going to camp for, a week.

Okay.

Sounds great, I know.

Right.

And what else sounds great is we catch a limit every day.

Yes.

Now, we don't have to stop fishing on day four when we've got three limits over our first three days.

We can keep those fish and they don't.

We're not going to be in violation of any.

Yeah.

That's right.

And I will just say I always want to remind people whether we're talking about forward facing sonar limits or whatever it might be.

The limit is the limit for a reason.

And we have biologists that are actively managing, you know, all of our lakes around the state.

And so we will continue to allow those.

And if we see that a certain lake is being affected or, you know, negatively or populations are going will adjust the regs and we'll make, you know, that lake's regulations different.

So I guess another thing, a way to look at it, though, is because I said it would be very optimistic for us to plan to catch a limit every day, you know, over a week long trip.

I mean, I can't and not everybody's catching a limit every day.

Very few people are catching a limit every day, right?

Very few people.

That is a fact.

And we know.

That again, from creel surveys and things like that.

Probably low single digit percentages are catching and keeping limits, especially something like crappie where you've got so many that you can see.

So again, it's really not going to affect, you know, 350, 370,000 anglers about fishing licenses in Arkansas.

Very small small percentage.

But those people that it does impact it.

It's going to make life easier for them to say.

Yes, yes.

And there we you know, we have some very skilled anglers.

We do.

We do.

That catch a lot more than you and I. Do.

Well, I, I don't want to admit that, but you're probably right.

Good luck.

Or no matter what you're fishing for, I hope you catch limits every day.

And now you.

Now you can, Now you can keep them in the ice chests, and, we won't count against your, your your possession limit.

They used to be three, three daily limits.

Okay.

Where are we going to go from here?

You know, there was one, bow hunting is now legal for, alligator, private land.

Yeah.

That's right.

So, I think one we'd heard this from the public in the past, but to some of our commissioners directly approached Fisheries Division and said, hey, I know that.

And X, Y and Z state nearby, they allow, shooting an alligator and it's with kind of fishing, bow fishing kind of tackle.

It's going to have a string or rope attached, etc.

that's allowed in other states.

Can we do it here?

And so we agreed to go ahead and let's try it on private waters first, just as a little test case.

And so I think we'll watch that for 1 to 2 years.

And if that goes well, we will probably allow it on public.

If it doesn't go well, for some reason, we will disallow it anywhere.

But.

Okay.

We said, yeah, if that's working for other states, let's give it a shot and see what happens.

Okay.

We should have hit this when we were talking about the possession limits, because it sort of fits in with that.

Guides transferring fish to anglers.

There was a regulation, approved at the April meeting related to that.

How do we explain that one to it?

Yeah.

So so there's been, different regs for trout versus all other guided fish species in that it's historically been, allowed for other guides to transfer limits to, an angler, as long as it doesn't put them over possession limits.

Well, now possession limit is no longer a problem.

Again, just to be clear, though, if you're my guide and you and I go fishing, we I catch 30 crappie.

You catch 30 crappie, that's fine.

You have to fill out a little tag of paper.

Who sure where to officially transfer so that if I if I get pull over on the way home, you can say, okay, Trey caught these 30 been caught.

These 30 were good.

You know, you can't you can't take three days limits and only two of us fish and no transfer tags.

But this allows for, a guide to transfer those legally harvested fish over to their client.

Okay.

And just makes it clear you just.

It's really again, I think clarification is the key.

There's been there's been.

Clarity around that 1 or 2.

And I we hear from a lot of our anglers and hunters as well about clarification of regs.

I get calls about it every Wednesday morning on the radio.

Yes.

You does this mean, sometimes I can answer and sometimes I can't.

So I think anything we can do to clarify regulations, by adopting new ones are doing away with.

Oh, yeah.

Believe it or not, we do want this to be user friendly.

I know not everyone sees that all the time, but we do.

That kind of I guess I would it is a challenge to I mean, we as an agency are responsible for conserving and protecting our fish and wildlife resources.

All of them, not just the game species.

You know that if you're a regular listener of this podcast, we talk about a lot of those non-game species.

But so we we're trying to do that.

But balancing that with, you know, the public users of the resource, sometimes it it gets complicated.

Yeah.

It's it's definitely not easy.

And it's a fine line.

And there's a lot of messaging that goes, along with it.

But a lot of times in conservation, there are places where harvest is great and wanted and needed and and us as biologists can't.

We're out there trying to maximize the resource, whatever that might mean.

Number of fish, size of fish somewhere in the middle.

And there's a lot of situations where harvest is a necessary component of that.

So that's why we're out there trying to make those best decisions.

But, trust that if we've got a limit on something, it's been thought out and modeled out and sampled and.

And to your point, I mean, we are constantly, perpetually monitoring these, these populations of various species, throughout our, our lakes and streams.

Yeah.

And if people are.

Oh, you always change this this, you know, we're changing because the population.

Change the science tells us to do.

Exactly.

All right.

So so speaking of harvest, probably another thing that was, there was a handful of regulations pertaining to lakes that have been renovated.

Lake Monticello is one I know that came back online a year and a half ago now, where you could actually harvest some fish.

It was operated, or managed, I should say, under catch and release regulations at first year two, after it was, reinstated.

Will amoena coming back online this spring.

Will come back online as far as it's got water in it.

You can go fishing there.

Tell us about some of those behind it.

Let's talk a little bit about lake renovations because there's a big one we'll get to.

Oh, yeah.

But before we wrap things up.

Yeah.

So, you know, renovations are one of the tools that biologists still have to really hit a restart on a lake.

And, you know, when, when all these lakes were impounded, you know, in Arkansas, anywhere from the late 40s, early 50s to, you know, the 90s or so, we haven't had a lot of new since then.

But when they're first filled up, they've got grass and trees and all these things, and there's nutrients and they so they, they start off really hot.

Fish grow fast, you know, things go really well.

And so as all of these things are aging, sometimes we need to fix infrastructure.

But there's times where we want to do a reset just to help the population out.

And so, you know, that's that's a great tool for us.

Like you said, Philomena is probably our most recent.

It is our most recent.

And it is filling up right now probably actually, it's got a giant watershed.

It may be full, right?

Yeah.

No, I mean, we just as we're recording this, which is on the backside of, some late April big rains, especially over the summers as well.

So yeah, it'll probably be full.

So we'll be stocking it this spring and fall and then probably again next year.

But the point is, when we've redone it, we have to let those fish get in there and grow and establish for a little while.

So, you know, maybe a couple start.

With baitfish and species like sunfish and things like that.

And then you stocked the.

Stocking to give that one year.

And then the crappie and bass will come in the second year.

Okay.

And so, there were I guess, rags for Will amoena in this package make it basically it's going to be catch and release for a year.

Correct.

So a lot of times before we go to renovate, we take all the gloves off completely and say, catch all you want because we're just going.

To use it or lose it kind of.

Exactly.

And so then we come back on the other end, do catch a release.

And then in about two years we will allow, oftentimes it's not full daily statewide limits.

Maybe it's a little bit of reduced, but start letting people catch bream and catfish and a limited number of bass, before we open it all the way up, guys.

So it's kind of a process.

It's a necessary step.

It's a it's a step by step process.

A couple of those lakes that are now in catch and keep points out and, Monticello is.

Yeah.

So you can keep you I'll I'm catch and release fish and most of the time.

So forgive me if I'm not 100% up on what the harvest regulations are.

Now what is going to is five five bass.

Only one can be over 16.

Okay.

And again, we did that primarily because we wanted someone to be able to, add a legacy longer to, that new, highly successful this year program.

So you can retain that.

Yeah.

We want to.

Be able to legally take that fish so that they could potentially turn it in for spawning.

Gotcha.

And we were excited here, you know, with that, like, really only about three years back online produced a ten pounder this year.

And then a second one about five days after the season ended.

So.

Oh, wow.

I think numbers over there.

I am highly anticipating what next season looks like.

It's going to be incredible.

I mean, you talked about in the 90s, I was, from Pine Bluff, as you know, and fishing that lake in the 90s was just incredible.

It's man, it was magical.

I, I came on the tail end when it was really kind of starting to go, but the largest fish I have ever personally handled was about a 12.5 pound that I got on a sample.

And, I mean, I just couldn't believe it.

It didn't look real.

Yeah, yeah, like big buggy.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's something else.

So talking about that, Ryan Moser check, likes to point out that four and a half years ago, you could drive a truck across the bed of Lake Monticello when it was dry being renovated because of infrastructure issues.

It's not our lake.

It's the city of Monticello owns it.

But we took the opportunity to go in there and do some, do some habitat work.

Unbelievable.

What is driving four years ago, catching a 10 pound.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

Unbelievable.

I mean, it goes to, really proves the point.

You're talking about how we reset these lakes with with, it's the best.

Tool in our in our tool chest.

It's, unpopular at times when people don't want to hear their lakes being drained.

You read my mind where I was going with this one.

I mean, one of the big ones that probably statewide and especially in central Arkansas, that people have been following is Lake Conway.

We.

Yeah.

September 1st, 2023, started opening those gates.

Slow trickle at first, but drained that lake, but mostly drained or so it's going to retain a little bit of water in the, in the creek channels and old ponds and things like that, basins, especially down there on the lower end.

But it's not always I mean, there was some resistance.

Yeah.

For public resistance.

I mean, if you live on the lake, I don't want to look at a dry lake bed, but, I want to take this opportunity before we wrap things up here.

Been.

That project is really going well.

It is, it is.

And I know for some folks and for us, it was a slightly slower start than we were hoping for.

But once it got started, the construction started this last fall.

And it has just flown like it's going really well.

The primary structure, what I'll call which replaces what was the gated system, is essentially complete.

That is, a sawtooth weir.

So it's kind of, like a set of these, like, like sawtooth that allows in 108ft of with we can flow.

What would be like if you got a 600 plus foot long dam?

So it relieves water, a little bit easier.

That piece is done.

We're also doing a secondary auxiliary, spillway that's got some gates on it that will allow us to lower the water level a few feet for management purposes in the future.

That structure is I don't I'm going to guess about a third of the way done.

But all of these things are going way faster than we anticipated on the construction side in a positive way.

So things are looking good for that project.

I've had some questions to people talking about, well, now that that with that sawtooth weir is in place, I mean, it will naturally hold some water.

I mean, because there was a hole there that we were able.

So what does that mean for the final stages or remaining stages of the project?

Yeah.

So, if we get some massive rains, which we're starting to all of a sudden, you know, going from a huge drought to getting some rain, if it fills up, that's okay.

We're going to let that water naturally flow like it's going to in the future over the weir.

There's still a couple of auxiliary pipes, that are letting water out, but at a fairly slow rate.

Yeah.

Like, I think the guys told me about a foot would take about a month just coming over those two to, to drop out.

So.

But we're using a cofferdam system on this auxiliary construction.

So the show will go on.

The only thing I would say is, you know, if it were to fill all the way, and then we get another big rain that may slow us down just a little bit, but not in a bad way.

I mean, we're we're good on timeline.

We have some room to get some heavy rains and still complete.

I was going.

To say nobody wants a drought.

It can have negative effects on lots of fish and wildlife, but if there is a, a silver lining to drought it had.

The drought we've been in has allowed us to the the contractor to blow.

Yeah.

This fall and winter season was very tough on dogs and other challenges like say however for Lake Conway it was an absolute blessing.

And you mentioned like the the boat lanes have been completed, but we don't have the march yet.

But that's because we want water in it to, to to put those, big poles in to market.

Yeah.

That that contractor wants to use barges to mark those.

I think it's pushing a thousand, you know, telephone pole style timber.

Yeah.

We're going to go in.

And the machine that they work on is much easier to work on a floating barge.

Okay.

So they're waiting for it to fill up.

Well, lots of great news.

Fisheries in Arkansas.

I'm going to close by this.

Ben, where is Ben Batten going to go?

Fishing over the next few weeks.

Outward springtime.

Great post.

Spawn.

Catfish and brim starting to spawn.

Where are you going?

Fishing.

Been?

Yeah, I mean, I'm going to work around a little bit.

I have been going to Monticello a little bit and, having some great fishing and having some humbling fishing, depending on what the the weather fronts are doing, I forget those those Floridas are so picky about, you know, cold fronts, but that's okay.

I also like here in central, I've been hitting the Arkansas River a little bit more.

And then I like to go to Harris Break.

Okay.

Those are some.

And then, as walleye season is starting to come up for me while I season, I mean, when they get back out to the lake post spawn, I will be making some trips to Greers Ferry.

Okay.

All right, well, you heard it straight from the horse's mouth.

Former, chief of fisheries and now Deputy Director Ben Batten.

He knows a thing or two about fish in Arkansas.

Ben, thanks for sharing your insights.

With us here on the Arkansas Wildlife Podcast.

Always a pleasure to have you.

Man.

I had a blast.

Thanks.

Thanks, man.

Thank you all for tuning in.

We'll talk to you next time on the Arkansas Wildlife Podcast.