I'm April Chatham Carpenter.

And I'm Glen White.

Welcome back to A Braver Arkansa And if you're here for the first welcome.

In this episode, we want to start digging into what's actually happening underneath all this political di in our state and country, and what it looks like when people d to do something about it, where Our guest today is going to be D Phillip Fletcher.

Phillip is from Conway, and he's hosting public conversations the neighbors come together to talk real political and social differ We'll get to him in a few minute for our interview.

But before we do, April, I believe you've got something on your mind to share, right?

I do actually.

Glenn, as we've been talking about polarization in our additi our first two episodes, I've bee about how it ties to communicati and what I teach in the class that I teach at the university.

Listening in civil dialog.

And there are really four elemen of communication for context that polarization can be seen in I think it's helpful for me to be thinking about that as I'm getting ready to have conversations with someo So the first one is intrapersonal communication, where we're really thinking abou what am I saying to myself?

It's my self-talk.

What am I saying to myself about before I have the conversation, or during the conversation or even after the conversation?

So that's intrapersonal.

Then we have the interpersonal communication, and that's the speaking and list that's actually happening.

As I'm in a conversation with so which can go sideways sometimes can go, well, you know, or we ha sometimes apologize if it goes s or do it differently the next ti And then the third element is gr communication or community conversations, in which we have of people together that are gath to try to come up with ways of solving problems together.

The fourth area that we talk abo is is the public element, and that's the media comes in, the politicians sign, sound come in there, and all four of those actually i our experiences with polarizatio And I think some of that is invo what we call courageous citizens I don't think we defined that ye but that's an important concept in Brave Angels.

Maybe you could tell the viewers about that.

Yeah.

It's a concept that we've just s using with our new CEO that's joined us last July, and he talks about it in terms o intentional efforts to choose human connection over contempt.

And I think about that.

Those are choices that I have to every day in every kind of situa whether it be on the highway and somebody cuts me off or whether it be in the workplac and I'm trying to figure out, yo how I react to something that a says might be political or not p I'm choosing human connection over contempt.

So it's really a middle ground b having angry outrage and just wi because I think that's kind of the extremes of what we can choo especially in political conversa So we're listening with dignity.

You know, some of the research on political polarization that we look at shows how diffic And I think that's where the greatest conversations idea comes up, because it's diff to have those conversations.

It's difficult to have someone that your face to face with and talking about things that you have disagreements abou And yet, despite it being hard t it's really important that we make an effort to do tha and hopefully we will have some for our viewers that will help t you know, learn how to make that Why is it?

Why do you think it's so hard?

Well, one of the things that res talk about is types of polarizat There's one is ideological polar that's simply having different o about something.

And that's okay It's a it's a really a good thin to have various ideas about how to look at a problem.

The difficulty comes when you get into something that's called affective polariza I think we mentioned that a time previously, affective polarizati when we're no longer thinking about the differences in our ideas, but we're thinking about the differences in the per We start to think bad things about that person because they d from us and their viewpoints, and we start to put them in a ba So it's really about our thought and feelings towards another person, not about our th and feelings towards their ideas Exactly.

And it can lead to a lot of real things.

It can.

When you start thinking that you in your head thinking bad things about the person, and it can lead to hostility, a desire to confront even what we call dehumanization Start seeing them as a stereotyp and not a real person.

And lots of bad things happen when you get to that point.

So it seems like that when that then I'm really probably focusin more on my differences between myself and my group and the other person and their g So kind of we talked about in-group outgrou Would you say that that comes in It does.

You know, we mentioned before about how people are social anim We tend to want to congregate in Those are in groups when we're part of that group and we with i The downside is that also leaves for looking at people outside that group as the outgroup, and with it a almost a natural t to cast suspicion on that group bad thoughts about them and thei And we see a lot of that happening in sound bites.

I think that sometimes the media up, you know, I think about the people that I just naturally want to make fun of or or speak bad of.

There's something about that that might reveal something about myself, too, as I'm thinking about that.

Right?

It could.

You could be projecting your own insecurities and your own thoughts about yourself to others.

That's always a possibility.

But I think when you were talkin to people on the other side, it's helpful to think about, oka how do I view them?

Do I view them as the enemy?

Am I being hateful toward them?

Do I make fun of them or are showing respect toward th Or maybe anywhere in the middle?

What do you think about that?

Well, that reminds me of actuall something I learned early on whe braver, and I did not realize how polarized I was in my own th I didn't realize what I was sayi to myself about the other side, and I really was buying into a l of the media portrayal of the ot And I think that that's so easy to get into.

Braver angels actually has a sel in some of its workshops that it and so maybe it would be helpful to kind of go through the questi on that self quiz and, and talk how we've maybe changed over tim you and I, as we've been thinkin about this more intentionally.

Sure.

That'd be fun.

Okay.

I think on the viewers are going to be able to see these things on the scree but there are six questions and the first five questions in quiz, you answer with either frequentl sometimes or never.

So frequently, sometimes or neve And one of the things that I do sometimes I'll take this.

I'll actually be moderating a wo in which I'm asking participants this, and I will be thinking about two kinds of groups of people when I'm taking it.

I'll sometimes think about the p that are on the opposite side of the political aisle, and that what it was really intended for.

But there are other times since the our politics, we reall In fact, I was reading a Pew Research pie yesterday that said that we don't have jus political party.

Perhaps we have 6 or 9, even tho call ourselves Republicans and D And so sometimes I even find mys having more differences between where I stand as a Repub with my own Republican side than I do with the Democratic si And so sometimes I'll take this these ask these questions about the extremes, or what I wo consider to be extremes on my si And so people, our viewers can actually do this either way when they're looking at these items on the screen.

So I'll start with the first que How often do I find myself thinking about tho whether it be on my other politi or the extremes on my side?

How often do I find myself think about those people without much for the variation among them, for the differences among them?

So I'm basically grouping them all together and s they're all the same, so our viewers can see that on t You can answer frequently, sometimes or never.

When you started this angels, where were you for the other sid You know, one of the things that having just three options I like a little more in the middle, you because that's usually where I w I don't think I'm ever totally, or totally it never.

And this is probably true for all the questions to to give you a little advance not that it's it's probably sometime but I do see the movement from when I first started.

I was definitely toward kind of what I might call the ba you know, frequently polarized s And then I have, over time with the things I've learned and the experiences I've had wit I've moved more into, sometimes toward the positive de end of things, you know, and I f myself similar to that, but I fi depending on what's going on in and in the world, I find myself changing at times.

So it might have been, you know, two weeks ago, I might have been sometimes or n And then something's blown up in and all of a sudden I'm a freque okay, well, we need to get throu the rest of these questions.

How often?

Second question is, how often do I find myself assig mainly self-serving or negative motives to the other but positive motives to my group So basically, they're all bad or they're they're motivated by negative things, and my group is motivated by positive things.

And again, the answers to that i are frequently, sometimes and ne What do you think about that que Sometimes.

But improved this could be my it's going to be your answer.

Yeah okay.

Well we'll see if we can get you That'll change on on that.

Third question is how often do I tend to focus on the most extr or outrageous ideas or people on the other side, or the extremes of my side, ther making it hard to see how our reasonable person could remain in that group?

And I will have to say, for the on both sides, I that's a frequently for me, it I will admit that I moved more t the frequently on that one as we Yeah, but on the most extreme or outra and realize that those are only a small representative of the gr Okay, fourth question.

We got si How often do I find myself comparing the worst people on the other side with the best people on my side?

That's kind of similar to the previous question.

Any thoughts on that?

Probably just sometimes, but again improved hopefully in All right.

Fifth question.

How often do I feel a rush of pleasure with friends when we those crazies on the other side?

On your side?

I have done that a I find myself being more aware n when that happens that that's a polarizing reactio So I think I'm getting better at But there is that instinct still It's also easy for me on social to to kind of feel that as well.

It's like the likes is oh yeah.

So that rush that's happening.

O The last question is different.

We have five options and it says which of the followi You'll see these on your screen.

Which of the following is closes to my overall emotional attitude towards the majority of people who support the other side.

All right.

So we have five options.

We have hate is on one extreme o And I'll go through the other th in the middle.

And then we have respect and app on the other extreme okay.

So hate is their enemies out to destroy the country.

And then respect and appreciatio make unique and necessary contri Now the ones in the middle are d They're ignorant and should know Pity they're well-meaning, but they're duped.

Or basic respect.

They make contributions even if they're mostly off base so people can think about, see that up on the screen and say, w And I'm not going to ask us to a at this point.

I think probably basic respect and respect is where I am curren although for the extremes, there in which, yeah, yeah, I'm the sa I move toward that kind of PD kind of thing sometimes too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I know when I originally took the survey, I, I really had not been thinking about who I was connecting with.

And I know that there are a couple of theor that we're going to be throwing just to kind of wet people's app maybe, but also make us think ab One of them is social contact th And it's really if I'm around pe that are different than me, that are that hold that hold vie let's just say that I'm I'm getting to know people on the other side, or maybe in the extreme camp of my I'm getting to know them.

And all of a sudden I began to build a relationship and I began to understand them b And so that's called social contact theory.

We also have something called ec chambers.

You want to go into that briefly Yeah.

Echo chambers basically means we only hear one side of the sto So we're missing out on importan That happens through what's called geographical sorti If you start moving to places where you know they share your v but also just the choice of frie you only are friends with people who think like you d and it's really magnified with social media there you have a really big prob a, you know, the echo chamber and the bubble.

So we have the privilege today to have a guest on that's going to talk about one w that he has found together, people together, to ki get them in contact with each ot and practice these conversations And so we'll talk after after our interview with h about maybe other ideas of how we have found to be able that have been helpful to have those kind of conversati But I'm just going to set up our here and then we'll we'll get hi in a minute.

And this is Philip Fletcher.

Doctor Philip Fletcher actually is in Conway.

He has this whole area of minist kind of encompassed under a heading of Arrow Maker M I love that term.

It's like you're sharpening arro to to go and do some, some work.

And it's really more of a Christian philosophy or bra He has a podcast, he's written a but he also has a 501 C3 city of Hope outreach and that supports helps support the homeless and address poverty in the region.

But what we're going to have him talk about today is something that he's bee coffee shop civil conversations and inviting people with different views to actually and talk to each other.

So at this point, you know, we've been describing on how polarization affects peop Anything else to add before we we get Philip on the s I'm looking forward to hearing h I am too.

Welcome to the show, Philip.

Hey Thanks, April.

Glad to be here.

Well, for our viewers who don't tell us a little bit more about and what you do.

Oh, lived here in Conway since 2 Me and my family moved here, and a nonprofit, city of Hope outrea and then later on got involved with seeking to bring people tog over difficult type issues, especially as it related to race and politics and anything that was happening in society.

S man, probably going on ten years I've been getting people togethe at coffee shops and having hard conversations ov and really trying to drill down Everybody has dignity and worth because we're all human beings, made in the image and likeness o And so that should be our foundational starting place.

But then from there, it's like understanding, hey, we have perspectives, different viewpoin because of our personal experien know how we grew up, where we li and how the things we want to accomplish in the world.

And sometimes those can come into collision with one another.

And so how can we talk about tho so that we can continue to move forward and function together as neighbors in our soc So that's the point of what I do Foundation.

So seeing the face of God and ot reminds me of Mother Teresa.

She talked about that.

Yeah, yea Very critical and important.

So I wonder, Philip, with you starting this thing.

You know, a lot of people care about polar A lot of people are just talking You actually did something.

You created a venue where people get together and have conversati You're inviting the public, whic people would be kind of a scary How did you get started with tha Well, I think it's it's real old You know, if you go back prior to technolo when people would get together in the public square, right, they would discuss all types of things, right.

Look at Greek history, Rome, I mean, Isr You know, you have Jesus walking having good conversations with the Pharisees and Sadducees You got Aristotle and Plato and They're having their debates out in the public square.

But that was that opportunity for individuals to get together Argument presented here in idea And there would be this back and forth.

Right.

But then with the advent of soci for all of its good and bad, with it there came like this.

And I heard y'all mentioned it in the previous segment.

People started getting their ech right.

You know, because of the algorit and those kind of things to where I'm in this one room, if you will, and I'm only hearin what I want to hear, and then I'm hearing about someb and how they're being presented may actually not be who they are in reality, or their arguments or their ideas may be straw man.

And so over time, I was seeing l we got to give back to the old s Sometimes the old school is the best school, okay.

And so it's like, hey, how about create a space, bring people together from different viewpoints on a particular topic, and let's and have some civil conversation And so the term civil discourse You know, it's not my term, but leaning on a lot from like J Mill and his book on Liberty, he really hammers home the truth of, you know, there can be an idea that you ha Right.

But are you willing to have it t Are you willing to be humble eno and hear a different viewpoint presented as it relates to that particular And are you willing to either change your mind?

Are you willing, secondly, to go back and be like, hey, I need to do a little bit more s about what it is that I believe and what I'm putting out, or is it possible that I have to wholly now reject this?

Because now I've come to a fulle understanding of what the truth is on this topic.

But I don't think social media is the best way to do that.

And so what does it look like to have us face to face so I can body language, so I can feel you so I can hear your tone?

And then how does that change the convers Because you may be somebody I wo or go to work with, I don't know I see you at Target or Kroger or something like that.

And I'm like, oh, okay, I see where you're coming from.

And so that's the space I try to especially in coffee shops.

It's real disarming.

People go to coffee shops anyway and so why not do it in a space in which they're familiar with, the public square.

Yeah, we talked before we filmed a little bit ab There's really something about being face to face with a that almost enforces a social no of being a little more, if not kind, at least civil, you know, toward the other perso Whereas in social media, when you don't know the person, you don't see the nonverbal communications.

It's easier to kind of get into your worst place as a p That's correct.

So people actually show up to th Yes they do.

How do you get them to show up?

So I just use social media, you know, it's a it's a tool.

So I use it and I just put it ou hey, I'm looking for like in thi I'm looking for Republicans, Dem libertarians, independents show And at that time I had to limit because of space.

But I was like, I need for these for these, for these, for these.

Let's come together and talk about these particular And people showed up.

And it's interesting.

And I'm trying not to generalize but sometimes there's some posit They showed me a whole lot of energy on social but they won't show up face to f And I'm like, well, what are you Right?

If we want to move forward as a society and solve a lot of these problems or have better understanding, or we don't want the the extreme on the left and the right to drive the conve then we need the reasonable peop in the room.

Stop being scared.

You know, I have these these rul in place that I'm firm, I stand Tinto's down on like everybody h dignity and worth open with that People are going to be heard and listen to.

There's not going to be any type of ad hominem attacks or name ca anything like that.

It's going to be the opportunity for you to speak your mind, to present your position, but also know that there's somebody on the other side as we who's going to offer something.

So be in this space and I give y my word is not going to go left, Nobody's going to be called out of their name or anything li So in one sense, you I have to be firm on that.

And being firm on that gives peo a sense of confidence that I can say what I need to sa but I need everybody in the room And so when those individuals sh up, it's a good time.

And people when I do like follow up surveys because I send them out and thin like that, you know, one of the main things I continu is thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak my mind And I do feel like I was heard in that moment.

So about 12 people at the max, that would be that that the first one I did, it was 12 and then another one, a larger o I had about 35, 40 people at that one in this past year.

But in previous ones, I mean, I' tackled, you know, race issues.

When we had a Confederate flag r in town, tackled that one at a local coff And then in 2020, when the George Floyd situation happened in the the riots and al that was happening across Americ I took a slightly different appr because of what was going on.

And so across four days I had black men one day, and then I had black women the n and then I had white men one day Then I had white women the next And then on the last day, I brought everybody together.

Because I think part of it is you have to be cognizant of, based on some particular iss People need a moment to process on the basis of their similariti or common lived experiences.

Okay, so on that one.

That was one of the few times I a separate on the basis of ethni on the basis of gender, because people process different I mean, you're a psychologist, you know, people process differe And I found that what was how they processed it individually on the basis of ethnicity and ge it came across completely differ when they processed it in a room full of you got black male and female, you know, you got your more emotional type you got your more rational types And so having it separated but then brought together at the fin it was some leaps and bounds thi But now I feel like, dang, got more work to do because I fe subjectively, people are losing on race and other issues.

I think a lot of people would fi a scary notion of going to a pla where you don't know other peopl and you're going to talk about a difficult, politically tinged I hear that you have some basic guidelines, and you sound like you're very f and establishing those up front.

Have you ever had any instances where someone challenges those g and if so, have you handled it or how might you handle it should that come up in the futur in the face to face?

Never.

Yeah, I have yet to have one situation, and I think I have built a reputation on social med because I'll put questions out t because I want to get a gauge of what people are saying and ho feeling about a particular topic But even on my social media plat I still maintain the same bounda Right?

And I'm I'm more than willing to if somebody comes out of pocket on social media to either delete their comment or let them know I'm about to bl and I'll bring you back on later because I'm standing firm on tha I mean, you can go do that on your own page, but here, even in social media, I do as much as I possibly can to control that situation so that people can interact and so that people can feel like they're heard, you know, so in p I've never had that situation, and I endeavor to keep it that w But then also, I think people, they're leaning on me and trust because what they've seen on soc that, oh, I can come to this and feel is not going to let somethi be said or happen or anything li That's interesting then.

So it's kind of a two part deal if I'm hearing you right, is that you start with your social media pre and the guidelines that you enfo that kind of overall demeanor that you're modeling on social m and then you invite everybody in So I guess the expectation is that a lot of people who show for those public conversations are familiar already through soc which is something new that I haven't heard before.

Yeah, they are.

And some people I and and what's one of the beautiful things is I there's tons of people on my social media I don't know, other than their p and they're making a comment.

And so when they show up, I'm kind of like, oh, well, it's nice to meet you, right?

I don't I don't consider it me m because you sent me a friend req Right?

I don't know anything about you at that moment.

But the moment that we're face t and I got eye contact with you.

Shake your hand, you know, somebody give me a hug or whatev and I get to hear you.

Now I'm starting to get to know you.

Right?

So that now, the next time I see you on socia immediately, I'm like, oh, okay, that's such I can now I can hear his or her in the comment they're making.

Right?

And that's the other thing.

When it's done on social media, a lot of people are in acting wi they don't know.

That's right.

Right.

You don't know them.

Social media has given us this f that we know somebody, when in fact you don't, right?

I know you two because we've talked face to fac We've talked on zoom.

I no body language and all that and all that kind of stuff.

So I can say, I know each and every one of you and and it can go left on social because people don't know they they read a toneless statement and they put tone in there.

Or if people don't put a comma where it's supposed or a period, it's just one long It can read as if it is going off on me and or why they put stuff in all cap Why are you yelling at me?

Which can then cause me to get d or say something that's out of p That's where the social media fa and the opportunity for civil discourse to be able to engage in difficul It's not going to be as successf as doing the old school.

Let's sit down.

Let's have this conversation and let's try to figure this thi Because you know what?

Maybe they're not a fascist.

Maybe they're not a communist tr in the world, you know, maybe they're not a socialist.

Maybe they're not any of these t of pejorative that we assign to people simply because they hold a particular i There's one thing that's kind of about you've mentioned a couple already about going left.

I want to clarify what you mean because there are people who hav leaning political view.

So slang, meaning it could go ba Okay, okay.

I thought that's what it meant, but I thought it would help to c that, you know, I was thinking a as you were talking about the so connection to the five kind of t in that in our previous right before we brought you on, we're talking about, you know, hate an and pity and basic respect and r and appreciation has kind of rea It's a lot harder to hate somebody that I have met and tha their body language that I have had a conversation with.

But I can hate somebody almost.

I mean, you hate to say they hat but I can hate somebody.

That's I see their post on socia because I'm like, I can't believe they just said t Well, they we don't even know th We don't know the tone.

So that's that's good.

Are there any particular moments you've been doing this for a whi these civil conversations, have there any particular moment that stuck out to you as being like, wow, that was ama I believe it's amazing because o I can see two individuals who have a very hard back and forth on social media.

When they're in the same room to their approach completely change How does it change their smiling at each other?

And they was like, oh, you got a That's what your concern is.

Oh, I got a family to have a sim concern.

Well, gosh dang it.

My job is done.

I can walk away now because I found common ground.

They found a common ground.

You found common ground that in this particular difficult topic, you have a common concern.

You know, the welfare of your fa or your economic situation.

And actually you're a lot closer than what you realize.

And seeing individuals say, hey, let's exchange numbers Can we get lunch together?

They're not asking me, right?

I've removed and that's really a I'm out of this.

I'm out of the conversation.

Now I've got two individuals who are at opposite ends on soci going back and forth, and now they're like leaving the talking about, hey, can we get together and hav be interesting to follow their social media before and after the event towards each Yeah, it's a good research proje Yeah, actually it would be a great research pro It is.

So for me those are the the big Obviously the other big wins is when people's like I said, they're saying like I feel like I was heard for I wonder if another thing they have in common when they come to your events.

And this is based on our experie with what we used to call civil conversati worried about people coming in and being kind of difficult and, you know, violating the norms.

It that doesn't seem to happen.

It's as if I think people are attracted to what you're saying you're going to do there.

And they only come if they agree generally with the idea of having a civil conversation.

And so regardless of your politi maybe you do have that in common In addition, anything else.

Righ I part of this is is dependent on having very rational and reasonable people who have determined in their min that I'm willing to sit down and have this conversation with with another individual with whom I disagree with.

Right.

So there is a level of maturity There's a level also of humility There has to be there as well for two individual or for individuals who are looking at this one cup and saying, well, I see it as wh I see it as black.

I see it just having a curve.

But if those four individuals li hey, will you stand up for a sec Not only do you see that it's black, but it's also white, right?

Hey, will you swing around just a little bit here?

Oh, there is a handle there.

Rig So you now willing to surrender of going back to John Stuart Mil Are you willing to surrender tha that it was just a cut without a Well, you now adopt the idea.

That's it.

A cup with a handle.

And but that requires maturity and humility to say, dang, what was not completely correct or it was wrong.

And then to be able to say, hey, for not withholding that evidenc And that's the other thing that writes about, is the danger is n coercive or aggressive attempts for individuals to push what is true.

Right.

It's the our subtle complicity to push what is true into the co And so how is it that we can cre a situation where individuals who have some, some perspective what is true and say, yes, there is a handle on this to provide that space so they ca and not just aggressively push them to the corner.

Right.

We need to provide individuals the opportunity to say, this is this is Arkansas, this is everything that is about And we all have some perspective And then once we offer that pers about, yes, this is a cup, then to the next higher conversation what's the appropriate use of th And that's the other thing that we have to tackle in our continual discourse.

You know, the conversation about what's the appropriate use of the cup is the heart is s we find more disagreements.

At some level it's when we.

But but figuring out I love the cup metaphor, figurin if I just look at this a little bit differently and come at this and look at it from your perspective and see.

Oh, there might be a different w Now, I will have to say in my li in my experience, though, whenev see something here, something th my perspective, it's not as it's more difficult than the cup, it' actually on something that I feel pretty mor Yeah is right.

Okay.

Let's just say, for example, I'm not going to give you an exa of a particular topic, but but let's just say then a person gives me a different perspective on that.

That's harder for me to come to and have the humility to say I m At least for me, I might need to do more rese I might need to change my mind.

It there's, I think, in psycholo don't they call it cognitive dis where they, you know, our though We had everything figured out kind of in a box.

I'm doing this.

Even my relationship with God, I thought I had God all figured Who can have God all figured out But early on in my life, I mean, I thought, you know, this is this is what God is like.

And then all of a sudden, people around me were like, have you experienced God in this I have, and I'm like, no.

But if I have to be open to experiencing that in that way, then the stuff that I put in thi I got to push the sides of the b and I've got to get out of my co zone, and that's hard.

Yeah, I think we have to be.

Our practice of empathy needs to be a lot higher, becaus all of us go through this situat we've held on to something for s and what is attached to what we've held on to that particular or that idea or that policy.

Right.

We've attached a lot of affectio AF to that particular thing.

Right.

And with that, affection has com decisions that we have made, pra that we've implemented in our ho or how we work and things like t And then over the course of time, I've learned that, oh, the best use of this cup is not for me to put pi The actual use of this cup is fo to put a drink in it and to use but to move away from putting pencils in here to I'm supposed to use this to actually drink out of that's that's something that for some p they can just do it just like th For other people it is like a. Oh my gosh, let me not do this.

When am I going to do with my pa You know, and then but then you ask the person.

Now take a drink.

Like, oh again, thank you have a fuller realization of wha And it's only because I had the and the maturity to listen to a different perspec about this particular tool and say, I'm not using it to its fully designed, intended And so if we now apply that to other things that are going on in our society like here in Arkansas, but again, practicing that level of empathy that people are going to move at different places to adopt a new idea, while at the same time letting hold of an old idea, especially those ideas that are detrimental.

Right?

I think we're all the better for but it's remembering again, at the base level, we're all hum made in the image and likeness o and that all of us at some point experiences cognitive dissonance Yeah.

And be sensitive to that.

So the question just kind of a real practical kind of thing f who might be watching this and t sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure what to expect.

Could you just kind of in a real brief way, explain if somebody walks through the door of the coffee s looking for you, what will they see and what will And how will you connect things?

What what's what are the steps that organize Oh, no.

Well, there goes your audience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, you know, people come in.

Typically I try to do it for two Right.

People have usually that amount in the evening to come in.

There's a period of time where I just allow people just to mill you know, talk to one another, get to know one another.

Then we open up with some opening thoughts, and then from there, try to tackle 2 to 3 topics.

That we're going to talk about.

And then from there, you know, t the topic, that specific topic o allow individuals either kind of popcorn it, you know, just throw their thoughts out or or I'll just go around and be li oh, you, you and you write this last one I did, I took a different approach because I wanted a Republican, D libertarian, independent there we had a topic and I wanted one to come to the table while everybody else was observing the discussion goi So the conversation was with these four individuals while everybody else observed after they played with the topic Then I opened it up for the peop that was observing.

Then once that topic was over, then I asked for more individual that way.

Everybody had an opportunity to participate.

Also, everybody depending on the they wanted to talk about and wh felt comfortable interacting wit they was given that opportunity And then we do some concluding s and hey, one of my big things is, hey, make a connection with somebody that you didn't know before and extend that.

And then a couple days later, I sent out a survey to get peopl feedback on how it went, what could be better, so on and Very nice.

So I understand that you're goin right now you just done this in but you're going to be spreading around the state.

Can you tell us briefly about th So call it the Civil Discourse Coffeehouse series.

Right.

So it'll be four stops.

So the first one is going to be.

here in Conway at Level Ground C And that's from 6 to 8.

And then the next one is going to be in little Rock.

Then we'll go to Springdale and then Jones, Jonesboro, then Springdale, Arka So those are all be at different shops and each one of those loca And again it's two hours and it's just bringing people to And people can go on the my webs Philip Fletcher, or let's fill it with two L's and they can get tickets there.

It's free, you know, not trying no money or anything like that.

The reward is for me seeing people come together and make it happen and discuss if people are not in one communities, but they're like, you know what?

We've got a cool coffee shop in our town, I'd love, or a I'd love to do something like th They could contact you as well if they wanted to do that.

Are good.

Yeah.

They sure.

Good.

And my and I and this approach, I see it as a me just going in generating these conversations.

Right.

And then pass it off to a braver you know, and, and you know, braver angels can from there in terms of resourcin because I love grassroots type stuff and a lot of I believe our solutions rest with the everyday people who liv and play alongside one another, worship together, hang out in the city together.

The solutions are there.

It can't be a top down thing.

It's got to be a bottom up.

So what advice would you give or at a time for our interview with What advice would you give to people who say I'm not quite the coffee shop pa but I would like to expand and maybe tiptoe into having a conversation with somebody that disagrees wit I have told people, if there is that you have a disagreement with on social media, right, simply just inbox them, h Could we meet at a public place, right, and talk about this particular t I like to know more.

If we did that took the time to I think change can happen, but it as easy as it is for me to read a status and be l I told him or her, right.

It's just as easy for you to.

If you're on Facebook, for instance, click on messenger Find that individuals name.

Hey, can we sit and talk?

I don't think you're hearing what I'm saying.

Right?

Or here's my phone number Maybe that's not what you're com with.

So here's my phone number.

So doing something like that more direct action can go a long That's a simple step that maybe in terms of carrying it out, but But a very practical step.

Yes, ma'am.

Philip, thank you so much for being with It's a great information.

I look forward to seeing how it goes for you.

All right.

Thank you all very much for havi We really appreciate you having